chandler said:Mmm, that dodge.... And the corvette is cool as well.
LOL.. I swear, the Dodge gets more attention than the Vette, at least out in the sticks. I get offers to buy it every time it goes somewhere.
chandler said:Mmm, that dodge.... And the corvette is cool as well.
LOL.. I swear, the Dodge gets more attention than the Vette, at least out in the sticks. I get offers to buy it every time it goes somewhere.
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step blah blah something something..
The Vette is back in its natural habitat, on the lift with the wheels off. Hope to make regular progress now.
Progress? I suppose...
The entire drivetrain and suspension is down on two carts. I figured out the last time around that this is by far the easiest way to drop the engine. You can leave the entire wiring harness and all accessories, the supercharger, intake, etc. on it. Remove the radiator, the headers, pull the oil/coolant/AC/brake lines. Then you have to disconnect about 5 connectors on the harness at the ECU and body harness below the fuse box, pull one connector from the bottom of the fuse box, a few random things (like e-brake cables and some random grounds that I always find after it's halfway in the air) and it all drops out the bottom.
Any update on the build? I wish someone would make the powersteering setup for the ls9. Pretty insane no one has stepped up.
In reply to ALTRDTA :
Sorry, just saw this.. if this forum has notifications for new posts on a thread, I apparently don't have 'em on. :-)
The car started again today. Of course it has at least 3 new issues to fix before it can stay running for any length of time. The most serious issue is shown here: I put new Hinson motor mounts on when I had the drivetrain out, and they are 3/8" shorter than stock. Now the crank pulley and supercharger belt are rubbing on the crossmember. I'm going to put some 3/8" pucks under them to get them back up to stock height and hopefully resolve this. Then I need to fix about the 5th fuel leak, and find a way to connect the oil pressure sensor I forgot to plug in, which is buried behind the blower, and...
Anyway, progress. I've done a fair amount of work on the car, I'll try to put more detail later. It has a giant water tank, pump and plumbing for the intercoolers now; that's what all of the hoses on top up front are for. I'd like to make some custom manifolds to neaten this up, something like the stock ZR1 casting that combines the inlets/outlets but bigger. I went back to an air cooled oil cooler and ditched the ZR1 water cooled one. Remade the power steering hard line to get it out of the way of #1 plug. Reloomed some of the harness and put more heat protection on it. Wired a box with switches for the water and fuel pumps so I can run them with the car off. The flex fuel sensor is in and wired, etc. etc.
I smelled burning rubber... and not in a good way
Grinding away on the crossmember
In the process of wiring the pump controllers and switches. I started putting this stuff on the hatch floor and decided screw that, I'm gonna put it all in a box with Deutsch connectors and labels so I don't have to connect and troubleshoot it all while crawling around in the hatch.
Still needs wire loom and grommets.
New oil cooler mount
Installed -- I cut the ends off of the factory Z06 oil cooler lines, brazed AN fittings on them, and used short lengths of AN hose to the cooler. I think if I had this to do over I'd bend some hard lines from the cooler inboard, cut the factory hard lines where they transition to hose, and get a local hydraulic shop to connect them with new hose. Would've been simpler.
Fired the DIYZR1 up again today. 80 lbs of oil pressure cold, nothing blew up or caught on fire, at least immediately.
Made some 3/8" spacers and put them under the motor mounts, now the balancer and blower belt clear the cradle. Last fuel leak was a E36 M3ty Amazon -8AN to -10 ORB fitting, so I bought some more and changed it, no leaks now. The last issue noted from firing it a week or so ago was that I hadn't plugged the oil pressure sensor in. Doh! Let me tell you, it is impossible to reach that thing with human arms, anyway. You can't take the supercharger lid off with the motor in the car either, the cowl lip blocks the bolts in back.
OK, we're down to hackery...
Screw you GM, I have an angle grinder!
There it is...
The cowl/wiper piece covers up the cut piece. I'm not losing any sleep.
If that blower were shaped differently, I learned a way to easily get at the back of the engine from a Magnusson supercharger install booklet. It's a similar setup where the upper lid attaches with bolts buried under the cowl, but it seems like that supercharger setup is smaller than what you are working with.
Unbolt the front subframe bolts and then thread them back in a couple turns. The leaf spring will hold the crossmember up, so then you wedge the crossmember away from the frame with chunks of wood. Now you can snake a hand back there, maybe.
You only get an inch or two but that can be the difference between access or not.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
That's a good tip! I actually had the cradle loose and lowered, and I tried getting back there then, to no avail. That's how I got spacers under the motor mounts; I dropped the cradle, took the nuts off the engine mounts, and lifted the engine up to give myself a gap to slide them in. The cradle doesn't come down a lot unless you take the upper A arms loose from the frame. If I'd done that maybe I'd have been able to get in there.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:If that blower were shaped differently, I learned a way to easily get at the back of the engine from a Magnusson supercharger install booklet. It's a similar setup where the upper lid attaches with bolts buried under the cowl, but it seems like that supercharger setup is smaller than what you are working with.
Unbolt the front subframe bolts and then thread them back in a couple turns. The leaf spring will hold the crossmember up, so then you wedge the crossmember away from the frame with chunks of wood. Now you can snake a hand back there, maybe.
You only get an inch or two but that can be the difference between access or not.
I did something similar on my supercharged jag; Swapped the subframe bolts with all thread/nuts and just lowered the whole thing a few inches. Kept everything lined up and smooth.
I figured I'd give this thread a no-pictures update. I have spent a fair amount of time debugging various things since I got it fired up several months ago, most of them wiring related. Let's see:
MAP sensor connector wired wrong, corrected (ZR1 sensor has different connector from 2006 Z06, I swapped two pins when I wired it).
Bank 1 O2 sensor 1 bad, making car run pig rich and fouling plugs. Changed. Changed plugs (twice).
Started logging the car and working on HP tuners stuff, added a wide band O2, got it connected and logging in HP tuners via the Pro Link. Added fuel pressure sensor that immediately failed and would log 185 psi all the time. Ordered another from Low Doller Motorsports; when it came I realized it had to have +5V and not 12v like the first one. Ordered 12v/5v VR to power that.
Ran ABS bleed procedure 2 times, trying to get good brake pedal. ABS was communicating and ran through bleed procedure with no issue. It was showing right front wheel speed sensor fault code.
It would idle and rev in the shop OK after fixing these issues, but as soon as I tried taking it down the road it would start loading up and running horribly, and barely limp back into the driveway. Cool it down and restart, it'd idle fine again. Discovered it was setting accel pedal position sensor mismatch and TB position mismatch codes. It would limit TB opening and presumably that's why it ran like E36 M3. Checked data log, pedal position sensor voltage values didn't match. Ordered new pedal.
Changed pedal, voltages still don't match. Same codes. Did some searching, found out the two pedal sensors have different voltage ranges and raw voltages should not match.
Contemplated lighting car on fire.
Checked many, many wiring harness pins and connections. Changed throttle body for OEM unit I have sitting around, rewired TB connector since I had extended it previously and I wanted to check/redo those connections.
Today the car actually ran and drove about 2-3 miles in the neighborhood and ran reasonably well (for a car with a huge cam, a twin disc clutch, and a whiny supercharger..). I'm going to put the aftermarket throttle body back on and see if I can duplicate the earlier failures. If so, I'll be ordering another expensive part.
Still to resolve:
ABS now faulting for Canbus issue. No idea why. Nothing changed since bleed procedures when it was communicating, as far as I know.
IAT was broken out from MAF to a separate sensor that's in the lid of the blower. I used the OEM ZR1 sensor, and the breakout harness is wired correctly. The sensor appears to read correct temperature and logs it. However, it still has an IAT 1 sensor high code.
It has a bunch of other codes related to fuel system and emissions, most of which I'm not worried about (because Florida, and that stuff is missing). The fuel level gauge does not work though and I want it to work. It was moved to the Fore pump hanger in the tank and is supposed to work. Haven't looked at this yet.
Car is getting up to 220 coolant temps very quickly. It stays there, but I would like to see it a bit lower at idle. It has a heat exchanger for the supercharger in front of the radiator now, and that's new, and it still has the stock Z06 fan. May have to change that.
Still kinda want to light it on fire.
Hello Kendall I just made a account today. I just want to say I have followed this forum since you first started and you actually inspired me to the zr1 swap on my c6 also. Although I ended up using my stock accessories, a offset pulley, and the kong dual idler tensioner to get things to work for the time being. Holding a little over 800whp on a 8 rib belt consistent which I'm okay with for now The zr1 accessories are going on when I pop this engine lol.
Your coolant temps could string from a lot of things but I'll let you know I went with a dewitts radiator, prospeed fans, and even tried different heat exchangers. My temps stayed at 226 degrees in traffic. One crazy thing I noticed on my car was my AC compressor would stay on even at WOT I would smoke the AC belt after every pull. I did a temp fix on that but what ultimately fixed my temp issues was a proper tune. Car hovers around 212 now with the AC on. If your car is getting up to temp without even with ac on and idle. If you checked the basic things like water pump, tstat, air in lines, and its still hot. I would have to say your car needs a proper tune
I also had a IAT code once and it ended up being a defective IAT sensor.
As far as your abs codes I had a service stab and abs code intermittently turns out when I relocated my battery(my car is a base model) to the back and the abs module would see some pretty rough voltage drop while cranking especially when the car was already hot. I ran thicker gauge wire and added a few extra grounds one closest to the battery and frame, a block to frame, and a block to battery. May not help you but its worth to look at. My car is a 09 and if I have anything going to the can bus wires(on the obd2 port) it will sometimes trip the system since on my car the gauge cluster also uses can bus
Well hopefully something here helps you out any. I hope to see this thing on the road soon! Don't light it on fire!
Nlsking said:Hello Kendall I just made a account today. I just want to say I have followed this forum since you first started and you actually inspired me to the zr1 swap on my c6 also.
Your coolant temps could string from a lot of things but I'll let you know I went with a dewitts radiator, prospeed fans, and even tried different heat exchangers. My temps stayed at 226 degrees in traffic. One crazy thing I noticed on my car was my AC compressor would stay on even at WOT I would smoke the AC belt after every pull. I did a temp fix on that but what ultimately fixed my temp issues was a proper tune. Car hovers around 212 now with the AC on. If your car is getting up to temp without even with ac on and idle. If you checked the basic things like water pump, tstat, air in lines, and its still hot. I would have to say your car needs a proper tune
I also had a IAT code once and it ended up being a defective IAT sensor.
As far as your abs codes I had a service stab and abs code intermittently turns out when I relocated my battery(my car is a base model) to the back and the abs module would see some pretty rough voltage drop while cranking especially when the car was already hot. I ran thicker gauge wire and added a few extra grounds one closest to the battery and frame, a block to frame, and a block to battery. May not help you but its worth to look at. My car is a 09 and if I have anything going to the can bus wires(on the obd2 port) it will sometimes trip the system since on my car the gauge cluster also uses can bus
Well hopefully something here helps you out any. I hope to see this thing on the road soon! Don't light it on fire!
Hey, I'm happy you created an account and posted here! I feel like I'm shouting into the void sometimes, as I suspect we all do. I'd love to see pictures of your install, and it's great that it's running and making good power!
I am hopeful that my temp issues are at least partially because it still needed bled some more. I am going to pull the line to the steam port and make sure there's no more air in there this week. Edit: it has a DeWitt radiator now, but still the stock fan.
On the IAT, I will try another. Cheap enough and easy. It'd be weird if it read correctly and still tripped the code, but that's what it appears to be doing from the logs.
The ABS/voltage thing may actually be part of my issue; the car killed the old Optima battery that was in there a couple of weeks ago; it only had 5v when I pulled it and replaced it. I can reset the codes and the ABS light will not come on immediately, but early in any drive cycle when I use the brakes it comes back. I don't hear the solenoids at all now when attempting to run the bleed cycle so I feel like it's not powered. Power at the fuse box for ABS is good.
I did duplicate my issue with the throttle body; it's an inexpensive Snake Eater Performance one and when I contacted them this week, they actually responded. It is long out of any warranty as it's been sitting around on the car while I left it sit and moved a couple of times. If they offer me a discount on a new one I might roll the dice again. If not, it's getting a much more expensive Nick Williams or other "name brand" part, I guess.
I won't (intentionally) light it on fire yet; I am trying to steadily make progress and get it on the road.
Here are some photos of what I did. At first I was using a bracket sold in a magnuson kit but proved to be too weak as it snapped while I was racing. Possibly because I may have had the belt a little too tight. It was something I had with my old magnuson kit. Had to run spacers half inch spacers in between the supercharger and the heads because the Lingenfelter snout on my supercharger hit the water pump. I lost a lot of sleep looking for zr1 accessories so I actually borrowed a friend's alternator bracket and made like a place holder for where the factory zr1 would have the tensioner located. Paired with a kong dual idler and I felt as I have struck gold at that point. I'm actually a machinist by trade. Ofcourse after two years of putting all this together I ended up having a zr1 accessory setup land in my lap, I'm still wanting to test this setup for longevity in the hopes it helps any future enthusiasts who also want a similar build.
This was with the old Maggie bracket which honestly would have worked just fine if I had a slightly longer belt. I was so worried about belt slip at the time which I didn't really have a problem to begin with. Snapped clean off at the mounting ears mid pull.
This was with the Kong dual idler and I was currently checking sizing with a 6 rib belt. I'm pretty confident that if someone went with a innovator west 10 rib kit instead of the 8 rib I had at the time that this setup would also work just fine and be a wider belt. I just dont know about longevity of all the accessories with the load a supercharger would put on them, but im happy to say over 10k miles now and holding just fine. Just took the backspacing of the zr1 alternator bracket and added the 2 and some change ribs forward so it would line up with all the other accessories.
Yeah I have never had any luck with most random throttle bodies. Not trying to knock on any companies in particular but I have came across a few of fellow customer/friends cars in the past and usually they would throw reduced engine power codes, be unstable for tuning, and sometimes just surge at random moments on the highway with cruise control active. That was back when I worked on cars for a living and ebay intakes and throttle bodies were the trend lol.
Hopefully it doesn't end up being your actual abs module. You have to get it programmed when you buy a new one.
In reply to Nlsking :
That actually worked out well with the stock accessories, it looks like. The ZR1 power steering bracket certainly complicates things, especially when I had to make my own.
I will ask, if you have an OEM ZR1 PS bracket now, would you be open to selling it or letting me measure/make drawings from it to make more? I have another local guy who has a couple of the LS9 superchargers but no PS brackets. I'd like to make a better version of my initial one, probably with CNCed parts.
Thanks again for your input on my issues, I'll keep plugging away on it.
In reply to Kendall Frederick :
No problem man I hope to see that car on the road here soon! As far as the power steering assembly let me think on it. My opinion on doing an exact replicate after seeing one first hand I think the better route would be making a new one but with the pulley in the same relative location kinda similar to what you were doing but with a 3 piece design. The bracket, the pump, and the pulley with bearings that are easily interchangeable(since the oe assembly is not) If you are just needing prints I can get you those whenever I'm back home from this job. I have a good print for the alternator bracket on fusion 360. One more thing I'll say is I saw recently on Facebook that xtremecfm is working on a solution for the zr1 accessories for a possible release here soon. I would get in contact with them hopefully they will have some good news for all of us! Only reason why I'm really holding onto this bracket is my 427 will be done soon and I'll be going with a 2650 which im sure will need all 11 ribs when I crank it up. If I could get more shop time at home instead of all the field work I have been getting lately I'm sure I would be able to come up with something lol
In reply to Nlsking :
Some good measurements would be fine, actually. I haven't even gotten a measurement for the pulley to see if it's the same diameter as the Holley LT5 one I adapted from.
I was absolutely planning on making it multiple pieces, partly out of necessity since I don't want to use a huge chunk of billet or get a casting made.
Again no pics but I contacted Snake Eater Performance and they may actually replace the throttle body! It's several years old but has basically less than an hour of run time and maybe 10 minutes of (defective, horribly running) street driving. I'll report back on the results. Hope to get a good throttle body on the thing!
Working to wire in the new fuel pressure sensor and it came with a Packard connector and pins. I cannot assemble those pins into the Packard connector to save my life. Ordered a pre-assembled connector from Low Doller for a whopping $5. Why didn't I see that when I ordered the sensor, I dunno..
That is a TON of patience you bringing to sorting the car, wow, impressive
I have a 2008 Z06 that I put a NW103 TB on and had issues similar to yours. The tuner was complaining he couldn't get the idle right and every time it got any throttle it would rev, come down and then stall. It had pedal and TB position codes. I called Nick Williams and come to find out the earlier cars (I think before 2009) with silver blade TBs need to have the TB position altered to work right. Nick Williams ended up calling the tuner and working with him so I don't know the specifics. Fixed my issue and the car is fine.
The tuner was freaking out and trying to blame my autoblip and that something was wrong with the pedal. We were close to trying a stock one or returning the NW one thinking it was defective. Nick Williams knew exactly what was wrong when I told him the year of the car. Try reaching out to the TB manufacturer and see what they say.
In reply to hoffmaw1 :
I did talk to them about that; I don't think that's the issue in this case because even though this is a 2006, the ECM is a 2009+ E38 that DSX sold me. The E38 uses the later "gold blade" OEM TB and should work fine with the SEP 103 or others. The ironic thing is you can still run the 2006 silver TB on the car with no errors.
In reply to Frigidaire :
I dunno if I have much patience left but I'm trying! Lol
In reply to Kendall Frederick :
Ah ok. That is kind of weird you can swap between the two of them. My car had the exact same symptoms as yours. It would only start cold, you could never hot start it. When it did run it just didn't sound good and ran very poorly. Good luck, looking forward to hear what the problem ends up being!
Brief update: still working on this thing, got a new TB from Snake Eater and it seems to work without the errors of the previous one. Coolant temps are better after another round or two of trying to get air out of the system. Drove it around my neighborhood a couple of times. New FP sensor wired and logging in HP Tuners. Now I'm putting body panels back on, trying to get it ready for a bit of road testing and the dyno.
I actually drove the car at speeds greater than 20 mph today, and I'm cautiously optimistic. I took it out of our neighborhood to the main road, which gave me the opportunity to get it to ~60 mph and data log for about 15 minutes. It ran OK, tune is of course crude right now with some surging at light throttle, but overall it was very encouraging!
Heading back and listening to the supercharger whine, the water pump for the intercooler tank, and all of the various noises, I got paranoid about whether I had topped off the differential gear oil and couldn't remember when I had last separated it from the trans. So now I'm headed to get gear oil and Dextron III (for the trans). I still have to figure out my ABS issue but it's driveable and I think it might be time to get some E85 in it and take it to the dyno.
Oh, put the body panels back on and cleaned it up. I ordered some new fenderwell trim pieces and I'm still missing one of the front underbody brake duct pieces, hoping it shows up around here somewhere. This car has been in 3 different locations since it last ran. (!) What say you for hood choices on this thing? Chop holes in the stock hood, big cowl hood, what? I do want to put vents in the hood.
Congrats! I know how unnerving the first drive at speed can be. OMG what was that sound?!?!
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