A shopping thread - new driver in New England

The purpose of this thread is to be a single thread for asking info about vehicles I find in my search for a vehicle for my son who is eligible for his license in December. 

Use case:

- Driving to and from hockey practices (2-5 times a week, and 5-15 miles each way depending on team/rink)

- Driving to school 

- Driving to work. Could be up to 30-45 miles depending on which rink he's teaching/ CB coaching at that day. 
- Driving to golf course (5-15 miles)

- Driving to local ski area occasionally (20 miles )

Driving conditions:

- Central Mass, so 4 real seasons

- Practices are after dinner, so after sunset. 
- secondary roads and highway 

- Practice cancellations only happening for extreme weather like a blizzard.

Other stuff:

- Ideally $2k-3k purchase (lower is better since a first car)

- I expect deferred maintenance and/or repairs at that price (brakes, tires, or sub $500 repairs for sensors, exhaust, suspension)

- Minimal rust (mass does annual inspections)

- New enough to have airbags, abs, stability/traction control, and decent lighting

- Decent fuel economy ( 20mpg around town, 30mpg highway)

- Not enough power to get into serious trouble 

- Fits a hockey bag and sticks, golf clubs, or snowboard.

That should cover the background. I'll add posts as I come across vehicles over the next few months with vehicles and questions. 

Thanks in advance for your input and knowledge. 
 

Edit: I just saw the thread for New driver vehicle recommendations. 

This thread will be focused more on specific vehicles to get the hives feedback and knowledge on specific "for sale" options without creating a new thread for each one. 

Any old Subarus fit the bill? When I lived in Mass. and ventured into Maine on a regular basis, that seemed like the go-to car.

J.A. Ackley said:

Any old Subarus fit the bill? When I lived in Mass. and ventured into Maine on a regular basis, that seemed like the go-to car.

Came here to suggest this. I don't have much (or any, really) experience driving in the snow, but I've been led to beleive that even a 2WD car with decent snow tires can handle pretty well in the snow.

J.A. Ackley said:

Any old Subarus fit the bill? When I lived in Mass. and ventured into Maine on a regular basis, that seemed like the go-to car.

That was my first thought as well.  A ~2010 Impreza hatchback would fit that bill perfectly.  

P2 Volvo XC70. They're common, solid, don't rust, and a surprising number of owners have maintained them well and are finally selling after years of use, usually around 200k miles.

I've noticed that Scion is quickly being overlooked.  Add in a manual trans and they seem hard to sell/find buyers for.  I've long said that non-sporty manual trans cars are real market bargains.  

Seek out  a '08-'15 Scion xD which gets you a Corolla drivetrain in a convenient box/hatch shape.  Almost as good a value as a Pontiac Vibe

Thank you for the suggestions, and info in specific models. 

As for winter, I'll put Blizzaks on whatever we get. The roads are cleared pretty well, it is mainly the blowing snow, melt/refreeze, and the sloppy stuff at the beginning or end which 4wd or 2wd will handle with good tires.   

My list I had been looking at were:

- Subarus (have history with them from late 90s and early 2000s). Which years should the 2.5 be avoided? The other Subie engines didn't suffer the head basket issues, right?

- Honda civic and accord (less Honda tax in the accord and they seem cleaner)

- Toyota Camrys and Corolla (similar obserbvation that Camrys seem less abused an the 4 vs 6 cylinder info is good to know)

- Volvo: What years/models are good options that will be reliable? What mileage do they become a ticking time bomb?

- Hyundai and Kia without GDI. Elantra, forte, Sportage, Tucson, sonata. 

- Prius: efficient, but no personal experience with hybrids. 

- Scions: seem thin in the ground here, but it might be my search terms need to be adjusted. 

2 thoguht came to mind.

XJ.  (doh)

and a rav 4  without a 2.4 liter engine  older ones will need a v6  might be out of price range  newer ones will have a 2.5  or a v6

In reply to scooterfrog :

Good point, RAV4 and CRV should be on the list. 

I like the XJ, and had one before, but I'm not sure where they left off on some of the safety innovations. I'm trying to stay new enough to have a good balance of airbags, abs, crumple zones, etc without spending too much on a first car. 

What is the thought on Honda Pilots?

I can get a 2010 Touring with 150k miles on it from a family member for about $2900. It will need a ball joint, sway bar mount, and brakes. Fluids were all replaced by the dealer and the only things the out in the list of what it needed were those and exhaust gasket between the car and mid-pipe (I think).

I drove it recently and it drove nice, but there's a clunk from the sway bar and the brake pedal is low, but firm. 

I know it doesn't meet the fuel economy target, but mileage driven will be relatively low until spring anyway. I could always turn flip it with everything fixed and increase my budget if his mileage increases. 

In reply to No Time :

When I was looking for a P2 (ended up with a P1, but that's another story), it seemed fairly clear that the best years were 2004-7. As long as the basic maintenance stuff has been done, they seem to go forever; a lot of them seem to be sold by the original owners at 200k, but I think that's just psychological ("It's an old car with a lot of mileage") rather than them being on the verge of falling apart. On such an example, I would expect most of the issues to be with ancillary systems, not the driveline.

FWIW, my P1 has the 5-cylinder turbo engine and AWD, has 220k miles on it, and is doing fine. It's due for its second timing belt soon, and I've dealt with various and sundry issues, but mostly it was well-maintained and just keeps going. The P2s are generally considered superior to the P1s in build quality, from what I've read.

A 2010 Pilot could be a good choice, at 15 years old, it should have just had a second timing belt/water pump change based in age (every 7 years or 100k). So if that hasn't been done, definitely budget for that. Also having a history of transmission and differential/transfer case fluid changes would also be good.  If you buy it, I would recommend a 3 time drain and fill of the transmission with Valvoline Maxlife ATF fluid, with a few miles of highway driving to get torque converter lockup in between.

We have two teenage drivers in CT, our '06 RAV4 (3.5 V6, AWD) and '15 Forester (2.5L 4cyl, CVT)  are an ideal size, get good mileage, and do well in the snow.  Insurance on the Forester is almost half the cost of the Rav4, I'm guessing because it's newer.

In reply to 02Pilot :

Thank you for the info. Volvos would be a new area, but it looks like there's a decent selection and they all seem to be in good shape compared so others in that price range. 

It looks like they are all wagons. Is there a sedan equivalent? 

Im not opposed to a wagon, but a teenage boy may find a wagon to be more enabling than a sedan.  A sedan option would also increase the number of options when searching. 

In reply to No Time :

The P2 sedan was the S60 - they're certainly around. They will not automatically be AWD like the XC70, and may have a more or less powerful engine variant (still the 5cyl, though; 2.4 is NA, 2.5 is turbo). Should be similarly cheap.

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

I'll give my insurance agent a call tomorrow to ask some general questions about different vehicles. 

I think I'm going to pass on the pilot. It going to need the timing belt right away, since I can't find any record of it ever being done. Plus, I think I'm viewing it based on how I would use it, not what my son needs.

In reply to 02Pilot :

Thank you. I can look for XC70 and S60 variants along with some of the other suggestions people have made. 

Here's a few in New England:

https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/ctd/d/hanover-05-volvo-s60-24-sedan-leather/7883608073.html

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/ctd/d/peabody-2002-volvo-s60/7880127669.html

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/d/bedford-2004-volvo-s60-25t-awd-pristine/7878736618.html

Best RAV4 you can find. AWD and a 4 cylinder. What I sent my daughter to school with. She loves that car. 

dean1484 said:

Best RAV4 you can find. AWD and a 4 cylinder. What I sent my daughter to school with. She loves that car. 

Concur. We have one in the drive way.

Or how about a GTI? Cool, good in the snow esp. w/winter tires.

In reply to Dean & preach :

The RAV4 is on the radar, and would be a good fit for him. 

The GTI is cool, but I'm not sure I want to deal with VW electronics and the associated warning lights. 

He's not picky and when asked about it, he says he wants something with 4 wheels that will get him to school, work, hockey, and golf. Part of the challenge is making sure I'm looking for something he wants or likes, and not something based on what I like or how I would use it.

He will help me when I'm working on something, but cars are more of a tool than a passion for him right now. As an example, if given the choice, even before he started driving he would rather have me drive him someplace in my wife's Sportage than the Mini. I'm not sure where I went wrong...😁

The 4cyl in the Rav4 from '06-08 has a known oil consumption issue.  People have applied various fixes (piston soak, etc.) and seem to have good results with those.  But for that engine, there's a chance that it was run low on oil at some point.  '09 and up uses a different engine that doesn't seem to suffer from the same issue.

Also on the Rav4, check the rear subframe for rust, I had to replace mine back a few years ago (this is my thread): https://www.rav4world.com/threads/4-3-rav4-rear-subframe-replacement.320994/

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

That's helpful info. That subframe reminds me of my sister's Jeep Patriot that had a rear control arm and diff mount pull free from the subframe. Luckily it happened on a slow right turn and my niece pulled into the next parking lot because of a new clunk she heard. 

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

That's helpful info. That subframe reminds me of my sister's Jeep Patriot that had a rear control arm and diff mount pull free from the subframe. Luckily it happened on a slow right turn and my niece pulled into the next parking lot because of a new clunk she heard. 

AWD: Suzuki sx4, Suzuki kisashi, Saab 9-3

Also I think a variety of ford sedans had awd in the mid 2000s

Not sure how rusty or how much ground clearance you need but 2nd gen Honda fit would be one of the safer/newer cars in the price range. Could throw some studded snow tires on it. Timing chain so less deferred maintenance to catch up on.

Il

Anyone know how bad rear wheel bearings are to do on an XC70?

This seem like a good deal, but just wondering if I'm underestimating the work involved:

$800 xc70