Hey GRM'ers - happy to be finishing the Saturn build my son and I started. He's military, oconus now (super proud dad), so it's time to finish what we started. As I work to complete the build budget- one important question. The car is a DD (or was and will be again) - so as we work to wrap it up, do preventive maintenance items count toward budget or are they exempt? As some conversation starting examples:
1. If I remove and install upgraded headers - the associated gaskets would not be exempt b/c I knew when starting it was necessary.
2. If I remove and install a new crank seal when upgrading the crank pulley (SFI exempt) - is that seal considered exempt? It doesn't HAVE to be replaced - but it's a lot better to do it before it goes back into the car and i find out 5k miles from now it's failing.
3. If I replace the valve cover gasket because they're prone to failure not due to leaking - is that exempt?
4. Items like CAFs I would also consider routine maintenance and exempt, is this accurate? It's certainly not helping the car go any faster.
I am looking for input before I decide how "pretty" my $2k challenge car can/will be. Hint - don't expect too much.
I/we want to be honest and fair, no "budget shenanigans".
Happy to share the draft budget worksheet for input.
Thx. Truman.
The third line says no. That said I personally think the rule should/could be more lenient.
Budget Exemptions:
This section does not apply to competitors in over-budget classes.
If something is not listed as budget exempt in the $2000 Challenge rules, it is not exempt.
Now if you bring a replacement part with you and the one on the car fails then it would be exempt.
Thanks Stampie!
I am inclined to agree with most of your assessment but feel like you: We need more clarity and perhaps some leniency on maintenance points for cars, especially those that are street legal and daily driven.
I don't agree with the spares note, because it was anticipated (because you brought the replacement with you), it should be budgeted.
So, the section regarding emergency repairs - wear and tear leaves this door open to interpretation. I think specifically: What is repair VS maintenance (or preventive maintenance)? So for reference: if I choose to not replace the valve cover now because it's not currently leaking, and I drive it for 5k miles, then it starts to leak creating a hazard: PM is not exempt, but if left alone, if the gasket fails, it may be exempted?
What is the general consensus with the group on this rule interpretation?
I have not reviewed build books from prior competitions - that may help a lot in understanding where the line has been historically. Is there some clear point of reference available?
In reply to furiousdrt :
As far as spares I think this part of the rule would apply if you are bringing spares for a stock unmodified part.
Parts may not be replaced at no budget impact under this rule if they were broken or heavily degraded when the car was purchased, or if the competitor knew failure was likely due to modifications.
I'm only speaking for myself but I wouldn't have an issue with stock spares. If you wanted to be nickpicky about it then me having my spare electrical connectors and wiring on hand would fit your point.
All that said I've never seen an actual protest with the Stampie rule incident being the closest I've come to one. I've never look at another competitor's budget unless they've asked me to. We're there because we love the event and each other not to ding you on valve cover gaskets. Honestly the most important rule to remember is unwritten don't be a dick rule. As I pointed out in Austin's thread this is the slow season for this subforum. Hopefully others will join in.
So, leave a header bolt loose and the gasket will blow out, then you can replace the gasket under wear and tear. Same for VCG. Shady? Maybe. But there's no performance advantage in replacing one non-leaking gasket or seal with another non-leaking gasket or seal.
In reply to furiousdrt :
You'll have to excuse AC. He's the kid your parents told you to stay away from.
Stampie said:
In reply to furiousdrt :
You'll have to excuse AC. He's the kid your parents told you to stay away from.
But the cool kids ignore their parents, and find that I am in fact awesome.
LOL y'all are great.
I understand your points completely.
We're just looking to have a good time and get back into the scene. I like the rule structure, just trying to understand how to interpret them. Other than reading about it in GRM- we've got no direct experience with the event.
There’s definitely some wiggle room, so I wouldn’t stress over counting every last stock replacement part. Just don’t go full galaxy-brain and try to write off a fresh engine and transmission as “routine wear items.” Build books and budgets are more about telling a story that looks good in a magazine than surviving an IRS audit. Outside of the handful of top builds each year, nobody’s out there with a magnifying glass fact-checking your authenticity. And once you get to know the heavy hitters, you realize their “black magic” usually boils down to being absurdly cheap with money and completely reckless with their time.
Come for the experience—and prepare to learn how to be part of the few, the proud, the cheap.
In reply to furiousdrt :
Come have fun and enjoy the ride. Do a build thread. Make sure you are part of the fun at the hotel and the track.
Re: this discussion, see the section of the rules called:
Emergency Repairs/Wear and Tear:
Competitors may replace parts that break during other competitions, daily driving, trips to or from the $2000 Challenge and during the $2000 Challenge, with identical or as-close-to-identical-as-possible parts without adding to or subtracting from their budgets.
There's more in there, and you can go see what the intent is
- Bill C
