Hmm maybe 701 is the droid I seek. I need to check one out.
Hmm maybe 701 is the droid I seek. I need to check one out.
docwyte said:In reply to enginenerd :
That's my suspicion too, that I'm sorta stuck since I want something better off road than on road. I'd just like something a bit better on road than my 701, without gaining too much weight. If KTM finally releases the 690 adventure, maybe that would do it, depending on wind protection. My bike came with the Brittannia Composites setup and I have a love/hate relationship with it. I'm not super keen on how it looks and wind protection is less than ideal for me, however the lighting is phenomenal and it's already on the bike. Paying $1600 for the Rade Garage setup seems dumb, I'm better off saving that money for my next bike.
I also don't understand everyone losing it over the 390 Adventure. I like the way it looks, but it weighs more than the 690 and has half the power/torque and much worse suspension. Apparently it's due to A2 restrictions in power and weight, it can't make more than a certain amount of HP and can't weigh under a certain amount. That's why if KTM ever gets their head out of their butt and releases a 690 Adventure it's going to be epic in comparison to the 390.
Agree on all points. I haven't been impressed with the Rade tower (or any of the towers really) for the cost. Additionally I'd like to keep it simple and inexpensive to fix as I dump the bike somewhat frequently off road. For my needs a good windscreen and decent earplugs helped a lot with those longer freeway rides to and from the trails. I too am waiting to see on a 690 Adventure...seems to be what we're looking for.
The Kove 800 does seem to use thinner materials in various places than KTMs and others. I know some things like the handlebars are notably thinner wall than standard, so I have to assume there are some other weak points, but it is hard to say until people start breaking things. So far I've not heard of anyone having structural issues, which can't be said for the big brands - see Yamaha T7's frame breaking issues. Not a lot of them in the wild yet.
Kind of an aside since I know we're looking for something twin cylinder here, but I can't believe a 690 adventure doesn't already exist. I put RFR tanks and fairing on mine and they fit beautifully, I just had to weld a couple tabs to the frame for the front tanks and of course make a tower to support it all. Big project for a home gamer, but many of the parts are straight off of bikes KTM already makes. 375 lbs with 8ish gallons of gas on board, and the RFR fairing is really good aerodynamically. Better than the 990, though I guess that isn't saying much.
There's been some rumors of a twin cylinder 500ish cc KTM, but my guess is that has been scratched following KTM's financial issues.
There were a bunch of Ibex 450s at romaniacs this year, but they had a lot of durability issues. The lack of power is a bummer, and I'm not sure how easy it is to strip more weight off of them and add suspension to try to get closer to 690 level of capability.
In reply to gearheadE30 :
Yeah, plus the T7's exhaust hanger location is pretty stupid.
I've been scratching my head since the 690 Enduro came out in 2009 about why KTM hasn't released a 690 Adventure. They've had all the necessary parts off their Rally bikes this entire time. The tanks/fairing/tower basically bolts right on, with minimal work for an OEM to do. At the very least they could've created a "Rally/Adv" kit that buyers could've had the dealer install at purchase, or we could've bought it later to convert our Enduro's with.
I really hope KTM does finally get around to releasing a 690 Adventure. While my 701 is already built, I'd rather have a factory solution...
In reply to gearheadE30 :
Gearhead, what race series do you do on these big bikes?
It all depends on where one lives I reckon, but if one is out West I don't see the use case for these multicylinder adv bikes. Even if one is an "a" racer and can wrestle one off the beaten path, you are inevitably trading a massive amount of off-road usability for a modest increase in on road comfort (assuming we are talking back roads vs interstate).
I ran the NorCal bdr last year to see what the fuss was about. Every other rider I ran across was some middle aged, under skilled dude tip toeing around on one of these whales.
I struggle to imagine a trip/scenario where one would be faster overall provided you are focused on the dirt. Rip the tip on dirt and come back up 1? Who wants to eat 100 miles of trophy truck whoops on a 450lb bike?
AJP PR7 is a really cool adv single no one has mentioned. They pop up every so often.
In reply to ridebreakfixrepeat :
The distances you go out West are vast and frequently require a bunch of highway riding. That's not a ton of fun on a thumper, hence the bigger twins. If you have to ride distances just to get to a BDR and back, then you really suffer on a thumper. Since BDR's aren't loops, and most people are time constrained, that means a bunch of freeway miles to get home at the end of a BDR, or back to your truck/trailer. Not so much fun on a thumper.
All that being said, I'm still unwilling to give up the much lighter weight of my 701 for a 475-500lb "middle weight" twin cylinder.
In reply to ridebreakfixrepeat :
In many cases I'm racing a big bike with little bikes, but there are places where the bigger bikes aren't as much of a handicap, generally out west. Things like rally events (Sonora Rally, Baja Rally, etc) which is specifically what the 690 is built for, Mint 400, Best in the Desert races, and more locally, FVOR in Illinois has an Adventure bike class, and there's the upcoming Hooligan 100 down in Tennessee. I've raced GNCCs, a national enduro, and other stuff on the 990 as well, but it's not competitive in my AMA classification at those. It's just for fun.
This topic is where we get into a lot of personal preference. People do those BDRs on everything from '80s UJMs with knobbies mounted to TW200s, KTM 500s, DR650s, and right on up to the big BMWs. They can all do it, but no doubt some make it way easier than others.
The use case for big bikes isn't because they're actually faster, beyond a certain point. The 690 is absolutely faster than my FX450 on fast rally stages, and in that kind of racing, or like the Mint 400 kind of race, it can be competitive. It's also way better to stand all day when you're on the pegs for 8 hours, just because the rider triangle is more open. Unique use case. That 690 got me a first in class and second overall at Sonora last year, but the long liaison sections at 120 kph were still annoying because it's a thumper and it vibrates. The same 2 hour cruise to the start of the stage would have been cake on the 990, though it would have also killed the mousses in the process.
The 990 is definitely not faster than a dirt bike for anything other than straight line speed. The last time I ran the 990 at the Mint I was running 22nd overall...but my class didn't have to run the full race distance. I was using a lot more energy to ride that pace than I would on the 690 or 450, and the risks are higher. My 990 pounds trophy truck whoops just fine...but it's massively stiff compared to what most people are running, and it's 290mm travel with a 42ish" seat height. Making a big bike work off road is a compromise that gets bigger the larger the bike, and the more aggressively you want to ride with it. For most people, that doesn't equal "fun", and that's fine.
You will never hear me seriously tell someone who doesn't have the same sickness that they should also be racing a 990. But for BDR riding where, like docwyte said, you're probably riding hours or days of pavement to get to or from the BDR, a twin cylinder bike sure is nice. And no one really makes a small, light, high performance twin yet.
Too bad the Aprilia 450/550 bikes have so many reliability issues. V twin in a dirt bike size package, even more so than the 950SE.
In reply to gearheadE30 :
Appreciate the response. You are a certified sicko.
In reply to docwyte :
Reach out to USA motortoys in Utah. They're actually the U.S. distributor for Kove. Gary is a decent guy and has spent a ton of time and effort building the GPX brand.
In reply to Mr. Lee :
Thanks but I need a local dealer, I want to see/feel/ride the bike in person. Not talk with someone the state over from me...
In reply to docwyte :
I had planned on flying out to Utah (Allegiant had $200 round trips available from St Pete to Utah) earlier this year to check out and demo a 450 rally, (was waiting for Utah to thaw out) I snagged a leftover 500 pumpkin in Georgia for less than the cost of the rally delivered to my door in Florida in February which derailed that. Though with the issues I've had with the 500 I kind of wish I would have gone the other way.
It took a phone call to set it up.
In reply to Mr. Lee :
Yeah, I'm not willing to spend the money and time to fly out of state to go look at a moto. If I'd already checked one out locally to me and knew I was going to buy it, and then found a great deal on one out of state I'd do a fly n ride. But otherwise I'm not going to spend the cash and time away from family to go look at one out of state. These are interesting bikes but they've got a ways to go (dealer network, parts, warranty service, have they fixed the cams issue) before I'd be willing to spend a bunch of money buying one. The fact that the local dealer is a classic car dealer and likely doesn't have a moto service center doesn't inspire any confidence in me.
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