Is the new hybrid BMW M5 more or less efficient than its predecessor? Depends on how your EV math works.
If you can plug in the new-for-2025 BMW M5 to take advantage of its 25 miles of electric range, then the EPA lists a combined 50 MPGe. But if you can’t, the new M5’s combined efficiency drops to 14 mpg. …
Dang, I'm loving the Daytona Violet/
In reply to Colin Wood :
The Daytona Violet looks amazing.
Here it is before sunup.
Does the hybrid math work for everyone? Guess we’ll see what the market says.
Brian Silvestro just published an interesting article about PHEV use in Europe and the US. Looks like the former is much less likely to charge the batteries, and thus aren't seeing the benefits. It's worth a read.
BMW USA says that their customers do indeed use the charging capability.
From a spokesperson:
- BMW PHEV customers charge very frequently: 15% charge at least once per day, 52% at least 2-4 times per week.
- On average across all our PHEV customers we do see that they charge 0.7x per day.
- >95% of all PHEV charging sessions are non-public (=home)
https://www.theautopian.com/phev-charging-data-for-kia-and-hyundai-revealed/
Looks like the hybrid motor adds just under 200 hp to this beast. Does it add to the response? The earlier M5s did prioritze throttle response (8 throttle bodies on the E39!), is this their way to add some snap to a turbo engine? It's certainly not to save the owners a bit of money at the pump, I doubt that's a concern for someone buying a new M5 over a normal 5 series.
The people buying a car like this are not doing so based on any type of math.
Keith Tanner said:Brian Silvestro just published an interesting article about PHEV use in Europe and the US. Looks like the former is much less likely to charge the batteries, and thus aren't seeing the benefits. It's worth a read.
BMW USA says that their customers do indeed use the charging capability.
From a spokesperson:
- BMW PHEV customers charge very frequently: 15% charge at least once per day, 52% at least 2-4 times per week.
- On average across all our PHEV customers we do see that they charge 0.7x per day.
- >95% of all PHEV charging sessions are non-public (=home)
https://www.theautopian.com/phev-charging-data-for-kia-and-hyundai-revealed/
Looks like the hybrid motor adds just under 200 hp to this beast. Does it add to the response? The earlier M5s did prioritze throttle response (8 throttle bodies on the E39!), is this their way to add some snap to a turbo engine? It's certainly not to save the owners a bit of money at the pump, I doubt that's a concern for someone buying a new M5 over a normal 5 series.
I’d say no more snap that the previous M5s.
So there’s more power yet, at the end of the day, can you argue that the outgoing M5 is quicker?
David S. Wallens said:Does the hybrid math work for everyone? Guess we’ll see what the market says.
For a 25 mile range?!
LOL. No.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
25 miles will cover more than half of the average American's daily drive (just under 40 miles, I believe). Depending on your home electricity cost, you get that 25 miles at a much lower cost and without the hassle of having to warm up an ICE. Also, fewer visits to gas stations which some people really, really hate doing.
If the driving experience isn't improved (which I expect we'll see in an upcoming mild hybrid Miata) and any performance improvements are muted at best (0-60 isn't the only metric that matters, of course), it's hard to make a good case for this thing.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I'd agree that it seems like the aim was to give the buyer some gas-free driving range.
If that's really the case, I'm all for the idea, at least on paper–though I don't know if I'd go out of my way to get this brand-new model over the outgoing one if I were in the market.
In reply to Colin Wood :
The violet and the fact that there's a wagon available are better reasons :)
I'd rather have the old one. This hybrid screams compliance car. Its a ton of extra weight for no benefit. There are some performance hybrids out there that are worthwhile designs. This isn't one of them.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to Colin Wood :
The violet and the fact that there's a wagon available are better reasons :)
I 100% agree. 
If I'm not mistaken, the previous (non-hybrid) M5 was ~$15k cheaper, in addition to getting >21% better fuel economy after the electrons run out. That buys quite a bit of gas.
So even assuming an absolute 'best case scenario' for the new (hybrid) M5 of a perfect 25*365=9125 mi/yr, the maximum mileage with 'zero' gas consumed each year, and assuming what looks to be a reasonable $0.05/mi for home-only electric charging and $4/gal for gas...
It takes 9 years for the math to 'work' here.
Drive fewer all-electric miles and it takes longer. At 25 mi/yr it takes over 3,200 years.
Drive more non-electric miles and it takes longer. At 42659 mi/yr it takes nearly 800,000 years, and at 42660 mi/yr it never will.
How many people buying these new will still have theirs, and be using it the same way, in 10+ years?
Straight line performance is apparently worse. With 1,000 extra pounds I'm sure track performance and performance in the canyons will be worse too. It's more expensive to purchase.
As I understand it, the benefit to counteract those negatives is supposed to be 25 miles of gas free driving. But how exciting can those 25 miles be with 195hp available to move a 5,300 pound car? While you're in electric only mode you'll have a worse power to weight ratio than a 1.6L NA Miata. Am I missing something here?
Nope, they screwed up bad on this one. At this weight and price they could've gone full-EV, given the car an under-3sec 0-60 time and eliminated the need for gas, and probably delivered each one with a complimentary sportbike wedged in the trunk.
IMHO, BMW should make all the hybrids and EVs they want (or the regultors require) -- but the true M cars should be ICE only. M cars became legendary for their driving experience, and electrification distracts from that mission.
Oh yeah, Daytona Violet Touring is the way to go. (Though I'm also partial to British Racing Green)
Areas of some cities in Europe only allow electric propulsion. So the short range will allow some owners to drive to their "city house". Hybrid also counts as some form of electrification for states/countries that may require that shortly. I still see the e39 m5 as the high water mark, but this will beat it in every measurable area.
Hopefully the m3/4 will do something closer to the 911 hybrid if they have to be hybrid.
There's a Laguna Seca Blue Touring sitting at BMW Welt as of last Wednesday.
But there's also an M3 CS Touring sitting beside it with the M catalog thrown at it, still too big in my opinion but better.
nderwater said:IMHO, BMW should make all the hybrids and EVs they want (or the regultors require) -- but the true M cars should be ICE only. M cars became legendary for their driving experience, and electrification distracts from that mission.
Typically it does, but it doesn't need to. And at some point (probably in 7~15 years) an ICE-only product line would become the Gaspunk Line of Laughably Slow Retro Cars that are Not Street Legal in Most Jurisdictions.
CrashDummy said:As I understand it, the benefit to counteract those negatives is supposed to be 25 miles of gas free driving. But how exciting can those 25 miles be with 195hp available to move a 5,300 pound car? While you're in electric only mode you'll have a worse power to weight ratio than a 1.6L NA Miata. Am I missing something here?
If those 25 miles are spent commuting in stop-and-go traffic then you can't use any more power than that anyway.
Plugin hybrids sound like a great idea in principle -- benefits of both EV usage for the common, boring, short/slow trips, while keeping the gas engine around for when you want a lot of performance or a road trip. Given what I've read in reviews, it sounds like actually achieving those benefits in a real world car is harder than it sounds.
In reply to adam525i :
Nice. That Laguna Seca Blue really pops.
I hope I can go back to BMW Welt someday.
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