Track tires: Is wider and stickier always faster?

Awesome testing!

As another FWD driver its also great to see the Crx as the test mule. Its the era of wide 15s!!!
Very cool to see that the 245 with extra track width did not match the 275.. 
 

I can't say that I'm surprised by these test results.  Wheels and tires are, after all part of a system.

Seems like the data groups well by wheel width more than tire width. I'd love to see the the a052 and p1 on an 11" 

The title pic makes the CRX look mean and ready for the track! Good data gathering, as always, Andy! Thanks!!

Just fitted my CRX with wider wheels (courtesy of Goodwin) and 225/45/15s for HPDE.  I was moving up from 205s and concerned about the extra mass.  Not worried anymore. Great article!

theruleslawyer said:

Seems like the data groups well by wheel width more than tire width. I'd love to see the the a052 and p1 on an 11" 

While stretching a 225 A052 on an 11 will get you some street cred with the hard parking crowd, it isn't going to be any faster on track than that tire on a 9.  Same with the 245 P1...10 is the optimal wheel width.  

Each of those fitments was a result of many years testing the options.  

Well Andy

I'm sure you've found this all very interesting, and maybe even job justification here to use all your fancy data collection equipment, while running hot laps using FREE tires and getting paid for it! Congratulations! Can you tell me, an owner of a Mk6 GTI DSG running in amateur Auto-X, what the hell I'm supposed to derive out of this, please? This is a specific test on a specific vehicle - so what?

I managed 3 whole SCCA Autocross events in 2021 'cause I'm on SSDI, struggling to get a car to the track, let alone compare compounds. I'm still going rounds with a certain coilover manufacturer for the junk they sold me. Sure wish I had your pull to get freebies. So please think of the other guys here like me that you're spitting in the face of with your unnecessary rhetoric.

James Kujawski

Kujomania said:

Well Andy

I'm sure you've found this all very interesting, and maybe even job justification here to use all your fancy data collection equipment, while running hot laps using FREE tires and getting paid for it! Congratulations! Can you tell me, an owner of a Mk6 GTI DSG running in amateur Auto-X, what the hell I'm supposed to derive out of this, please? This is a specific test on a specific vehicle - so what?

I managed 3 whole SCCA Autocross events in 2021 'cause I'm on SSDI, struggling to get a car to the track, let alone compare compounds. I'm still going rounds with a certain coilover manufacturer for the junk they sold me. Sure wish I had your pull to get freebies. So please think of the other guys here like me that you're spitting in the face of with your unnecessary rhetoric.

James Kujawski

Sorry to hear that life has dealt you some poor cards to play with.  And if this piece isn't appealing to you, it's certainly easy enough to move on.  As it turns out, our tire tests are among the most popular stories with our audience.  So we tend to generate a lot of them, exploring various angles.

As for freebies, know this: Every tire test done actually costs me money.  Sure, the tires are free.  But the track use isn't, nor are the consumables, plus the cost of the vehicle itself, etc.  And what's my time worth?

I know the value of all these things because I also do some private testing for various manufacturers that pays market value. And the GRM gig is not even in the same league as that from a compensation point of view.

So why do it, Andy?  Because I enjoy the engineering challenge, and as a retired senior citizen, it helps fill my time and satisfy a passion.  Turning laps with no purpose is kinda pointless.  And people seem to like reading about it.

As for the value of specific tests on a specific vehicle, the goal is to demonstrate the development process so as to inform folks in their own testing.  Understanding the factors that affect performance, and how they do so, can help to eliminate some choices that would otherwise have to be included.

Best of luck getting back out there.

Andy Hollis said:

theruleslawyer said:

Seems like the data groups well by wheel width more than tire width. I'd love to see the the a052 and p1 on an 11" 

While stretching a 225 A052 on an 11 will get you some street cred with the hard parking crowd, it isn't going to be any faster on track than that tire on a 9.  Same with the 245 P1...10 is the optimal wheel width.  

Each of those fitments was a result of many years testing the options.  

well, not a 225 obviously. You'd want to use a width that makes use of the 11" wheel. I know on some cars you are limited by what sizes are available in certain tires or as the article mentioned, even finding wheels. Optimizing for a specific car is a bit of a different exercise than trying to generalize the data.

In reply to theruleslawyer :

Speaking from the perspective of someone who runs the 15in sizes in this article, The A052 is severely lacking in available sizes. The 225/50 is the widest size offered in 15in and is taller than most 15in wheel people want (bout 23in tall a sweet spot). You have to go all the way to an 18 in wheel to get an A052 that would be happy on an 11in wheel, and at around 26in tall thats massive for us.  If Yokohama was to join the wide 15 world and release a 245/40r15 and 275/35, It could really shake things up in an already competative segment.

That being said, the Tire test usually use the Triple threat ND which makes sense from a tire size availability standpoint, and because we all know the Miata to be a well balanced chassis.. But I now wonder if the tire test would yield similar results if done on a heavier car that people commonly track. Like a Corvette, Supra, Camaro, Mustang and such.