Car Review: Porsche Cayman 981 GT4 vs Porsche Cayman 718 GT4

So I've recently had a chance to drive both generations of GT4's and I figured I'd put my thoughts down.  

These cars are very similar, you have to be a real Porsche nut to point out any exterior/interior differences.  Here are the big ones...

718 has better aero, like 50% less lift.  

718 has a more powerful, 4.0 liter motor, 415hp vs the 385hp on the 981 3.8.

718 has a better radio with Apple CarPlay.

718 can come with either a PDK/auto or a 6MT.

Ok, so how do they drive?  Instantly, the biggest difference you feel is that the clutch pedal effort in the 981 is FAR higher than in the 718.  Don't know what Porsche did in the 718, but the clutch is much lighter/easier to deal with in traffic.  I did feel like the friction point in the 981 was more granular and easier to modulate, though.  Next big observation, the 3.8 motor in the 981 sounds SO much better than the 718.  Porsche had to put in particulate filters on the 718 to pass Euro emissions, and just left them on the US cars.  Most people are deleting them since we don't need them for emissions, the cost for that is $1200-2400+labor.  At that point, apparently the 4liter sounds good again.

Sadly, this wasn't a completely apples-to-apples comparison; the 981 had catted headers, a plenum, throttle body, and a tune.  So it was likely making more power than the stock 718.  I felt that the 3.8 was a snappier motor; its throttle response and ability to rev off a small blip was extraordinary.  The 4 liter didn't feel that lively, and I also couldn't feel the extra power up high that people say it has vs the 3.8.  Likely because of the mods the 3.8 had.  Power on both was good; it was linear and pulled cleanly from off idle to 8000 rpm.  You can feel the motor come on cam around 5000rpm, and it's happiest in that last 3000 rpm.

Gearing is L O N G.  Every review I read/watched commented on this, and they're correct.  Second gear takes you to 84mph, which is absurd.  When you have a motor that spins to 8000rpm, you don't need such long gearing.  It's a shame because the shift action in the car is sublime, and the motor (at least the 3.8) makes such amazing sounds that you want to play with it.  Yes, you can get the transmission regeared.  Guards/Sharkwerks makes a 2,3,4,5 gear set that can get swapped in, but that's probably $8-15k depending on whether you upgrade the diff, replace the clutch, etc, etc at the same time.  

The balance of the car is amazing.  It's got mechanical grip for days, steering feel is wonderful, and you can place the car anywhere you want.  The car is very light on its feet and a willing partner.  This feels like a car that you're immediately comfortable in and will do quick laps easily.  The suspension is extremely compliant, the car doesn't get upset by mid-corner bumps and soaks up the crappy Colorado roads without beating you up.  I was very impressed by this; the suspension truly felt like you could drive the car daily and not get your butt kicked.  Suspension between the two generations is the same.  Both are running GT3 in the front and quasi GT3 in the rear.

The 981 had the bucket seats, the 718 had the 18-way "sofas".  I LOVED the bucket seats, but getting in/out of them was challenging, particularly if the car was parked on an incline.  Once in them, though, they're very comfortable with the exception of them being too upright.  Several companies make kits to lean them back some.  The 18 ways were supremely comfortable and held me in place shockingly well.  For a street-driven car, or one that's mostly street-driven, they're likely the way to go.

Ergonomics are excellent, it's very easy to heel/toe, and there's plenty of leg/head room.  There's a surprising amount of cargo capacity between the frunk and the trunk.  Not really that much room in the cabin for things, the cupholders are laughable as is the Porsche norm.

There's an enormous delta in cost between a 981 GT4 and a 718 GT4, $30-40k.  After driving both of them, I just don't think that the 718 is enough better to warrant the cost difference.  Particularly if you find/buy a 981 with the basic bolt-ons done.  I think the 718's held value well because Porsche announced they were going electric on the next Cayman. Now that Porsche's walked that back, the 718 may depreciate some, especially if Porsche releases another GT4 with the 4-liter engine as is.

Values on the 981's seem steady, $90-100k will buy you one that you want, with pricing dependent on mileage, color, seat, and brake choice. Even if you don't want the bucket seats, that's the option most sought after and carries the most resale.  

I was very taken by the car; it seems to do everything well and is an extremely cohesive package.  I wouldn't kick it out of my garage at all.

Great stuff. I have limited time in a 981 GT4 and it was pretty epic - street only though. Sounds like the 3.8L certainly has more character, but there's one huge "turd in the punchbowl" especially for the competitive racers... That 4.0L makes absolutely hilarious gains on stock hardware with just an E85 flash tune. Additionally, there's no weird power drop/gap like the 3.8L exhibits. 

Great write-up.  I still think the GT4 is about the perfect street driveable trackday car if you want something that's just brake pads and tires away from some pretty serious pace, but not quite into silly territory.  The only problem is that prices are high, and if anything goes wrong, be prepared to have your wallet stung pretty hard.  Maybe if the Porsche bubble ever bursts they'll settle into a more normal depreciation curve, but that won't help with repairs.  

I saw that both the 3.8 and 4.0 respond well to tunes, even on 91 octane.  I was surprised by that as most NA motors don't leave that much on the table and also don't respond so well to E85.  

I think a 91 octane tune on the 4 liters adds something like +30hp, which is just crazy.  

Porsche GT cars don't seem to follow regular depreciation curves and given that the GT4 is by far the most affordable entry into a Porsche GT car I don't see them dropping anytime soon.  The 981 is ten years old and still costs more to buy used than they did new.  A used 718 is anywhere from slightly under MSRP to over MSRP dependant on color/options/transmission.

I agree these are the "easy button" for a track ready car.  If you wanna go fast, add sticky tires and a set of track brake pads and you're all set.  However that comes at a high cost.  I've decided to make a play for a GT4 but in the back of my head I also wonder if it's just too much money to spend.  I could easily buy 3-4 cars for the same amount, something like a dedicated track car like an E36 M3, than a 2004 Boxster special edition, plus a Mk4 R32, a TDI caddy, and, and, and....

BGB dynoed both cars to compare, the 4.0 is basically a "smoothed over" version of the 3.8...basically take the 3.8 and fill in all the little dips in the torque curve and you have the 4.0. Between 4000 and 6500 they're basically identical.

It also seems like you can tune a 3.8 to basically match a stock 4.0 (based on the 981 clubsport...not sure if that has a different intake/throttle body) so with the aftermarket parts I'd say the one you drove is almost certainly stronger than a stock 4.0.

The 4.0 exhaust note is.....I don't know how to describe it other than disappointing. Seems like even with the GPFs removed it's still not quite as good as the 981. Honestly the 981 across the board seems to have been a high water mark for porsche exhaust note.

It's interesting to see that people are finally doing things with E85; the porsche world seemed to have avoided that until very recently. I always assumed that it was because the stock DI system couldn't flow enough fuel but never really came up with a solid answer. Or maybe that was the answer and the newer systems finally have enough headroom for it.

The bucket seats are an interesting case study of intended vs actual use. The stock seating position is correct for performance driving unless you have unreasonably long arms/short legs, but is definitely a bit too upright for most people to be comfortable in extended casual driving.

I have pretty extensive driving experience in a friend's 981, I've ridden in a 718 at an autocross but never driven one. Based on that not overly well informed experience I agree that they're just too similar to justify the 30% price premium for the 718. I guess maybe if you really wanted to win the track day at all costs...but in that case you'd just drop another $40k for a GT4RS. 981s are still CPO eligible for a few more years if you want a warranty.

I reared the first post....just to clarify the rear suspension has basically nothing in common with the GT3. GT3 is multilink, GT4 is a trailing arm strut, basically the same concept as the front suspension.

docwyte said:

I've decided to make a play for a GT4 but in the back of my head I also wonder if it's just too much money to spend.  I could easily buy 3-4 cars for the same amount, something like a dedicated track car like an E36 M3, than a 2004 Boxster special edition, plus a Mk4 R32, a TDI caddy, and, and, and....

If I sold off our NC, E36 Touring, Capri and NA race car, I might be in striking distance of a GT4...  but it wouldn't be as much fun as the variety I own now.  And our NA can already mix it up with the GT4s on track pretty well, so I wouldn't be gaining a lot in that respect.  It would be nice to only be maintaining one 'fun' car though... LOL

I've been amazed at the number of GT cars showing up at track days over the last few years... plenty of folks who aren't shy about tracking $100-250k.

In reply to Rodan :

Yes, agreed.  While it makes sense to have the variety and experience more things, plus have each car do it's intended purpose well, it creates other issues.  Like where to put 3-4 cars vs one, plus maintaining, insuring and caring for them all.  I don't have the space for another 3-4 cars, I could add two though.  If my old E36 M3 track car came up for sale I'd be sorely tempted to buy it and something like a Boxster Special Edition.  Then I'd have a dedicated track toy, plus a fun street car.  Or get a boost buggy like an Evo X or the Audi B7 RS4 I've always wanted...

In reply to dps214 :

"Quasi" covers a lot of ground, lol!  Some people want the newest, latest, greatest thing and can afford it.  More power to them!  The delta between the two is too great cost wise for the incremental gains the 718 has over the 981.  If you can get a 981 for $90k, a 718 can cost +50% more and that's a lot.  

Yes the 718 is a better car, it has better aero, more top end power (stock to stock) and can come with a pdk (If you want that).  For an enthusiast like me, unless I can get a 718 for a decent price, I'd rather save the money and get the 981.  

Nice write-up, docwyte. I have driven a 981 GT4 on the street, and it is a great car, but I also drove a very low-mile very cherry condition NSX just before that (it helps to have the right friends!). The NSX was such a cool car that got a ton of attention from bystanders which made it seem it like a much more special car. That said, I was impressed at how nice and civil the GT4 was on the street, while feeling a bit more serious with a lot of latent performance lurking under the surface compared to my 987.2 Cayman S.

I just sold a house, and theoretically, I could actually buy a GT4 right now. I was at the local Porsche dealership to buy the cheapest thing they sell there (drain plug crush washer - $2.60 minus my PCA 10% discount so I saved 26 cents!) and looked at a creampuff 2020 GT4 on the lot. Out of curiosity, I asked a salesman what they were asking, and he told me $130K. The going rate for 981 GT4s is about $100K, so that tracks with what docwyte says. Do I want that car? Of course, but I'm happy enough with my lowly Cayman S that I'm not going to trade it in and spend another $95K to get it. 

My experience with the 981 is very limited, but I do have extensive experience with all flavors of the 718 platform.  The 718 GT4 is a go kart, in both the good and bad sense.  It's nimble, lightning fast reflexes, communicates everything that's happening and very confidence inspiring.  It's also loud (in a good way IMO), demands smoothness and is unforgiving.  Overall I am a huge fan of the platform, even at its price point.

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

My experience with the 981 is very limited, but I do have extensive experience with all flavors of the 718 platform.  The 718 GT4 is a go kart, in both the good and bad sense.  It's nimble, lightning fast reflexes, communicates everything that's happening and very confidence inspiring.  It's also loud (in a good way IMO), demands smoothness and is unforgiving.  Overall I am a huge fan of the platform, even at its price point.

I'm curious why you say the 718 GT4 is unforgiving. Unforgiving in what way? 

In handling.  It's feels absolutely amazing up to 100% of its capability...at 101% you're berkeleyed.  It lets go with a vengeance and is extremely difficult to catch.  Lifting mid-corner, too much throttle exiting or ham fisted steering when you are pushing it hard and you may be in deep doo doo.  Don't get me wrong, it's one of the best handling cars on the planet.  It's just a knifes edge at the limits.

That sounds like a botched setup and/or bad tires. A well set up one on the right tires is plenty forgiving at the limit. Sport cup 2s are a common application on those cars and they are wildly unforginving at the limit in that way so that could be the source of your experience.

You are right in that the 718 is extremely sensitive to alignment specs.  Small changes make a huge difference.  However, the platform itself is unforgiving by its nature when pushed beyond the limit.  Think of it this way...the engine is in the middle of the car.  Driver is in the middle of the car.  Weight distribution is basically 50/50.  That gives it amazing handling.  However, when pushed too hard and it loses traction it will spin around its center of mass.  Think of flicking a quarter on a table and you get the idea...

Obviously I drove these cars on the street, so didn't come close to their limits.  That said, both felt easier to handle, and more flickable/stable compared to my 911.  Rear engine vs mid engine dynamics, so I guess it's what you're used to?  I'm not too concerned about being able to catch the cayman since I'm used to catching the 911...

docwyte said:

Obviously I drove these cars on the street, so didn't come close to their limits.  That said, both felt easier to handle, and more flickable/stable compared to my 911.  Rear engine vs mid engine dynamics, so I guess it's what you're used to?  I'm not too concerned about being able to catch the cayman since I'm used to catching the 911...

Yeah, the limits on these things are absurdly high, but Steve's right in that once you exceed those limits (which again, emphasis on absurdly high!), that there's a TON of physics working against you.   They'll snap faster than a 911 GT3 RS if you get in over your head.   That same tendency makes them even more "fun" to drive than a 911, they're darty and crazy responsive..  Until you get to 101%.    The 911s feel a bit more stable at the limit due to the weight transfer, and the transition from 100% to 101% is a "smoother" woah-that's-too-much arc, if that makes sense to you?   

docwyte said:

Obviously I drove these cars on the street, so didn't come close to their limits.  That said, both felt easier to handle, and more flickable/stable compared to my 911.  Rear engine vs mid engine dynamics, so I guess it's what you're used to?  I'm not too concerned about being able to catch the cayman since I'm used to catching the 911...

Yeah if you can handle a big power 996 turbo the GT4 will be a walk in the park. The 991 GT3 is more stable by most reports (I've never driven one anywhere close to the limit) but I'm pretty sure that's the active rear steering working its magic. Because whatever physics are working against a GT4 with 55% rear weight would be even stronger in a GT3 with 60% rear weight.

Almost any mid-engined car can be difficult at or beyond the limit, so I don't think that behavior is a specific GT4 thing. On my drive of a GT4, I pushed it to around 20% of its capabilities, because we were on the street, and the owner had just bought it and was slightly nervous. I will say that at 2/10ths, the car felt glued to the road. 

RacerBoy75 said:

Almost any mid-engined car can be difficult at or beyond the limit, so I don't think that behavior is a specific GT4 thing. On my drive of a GT4, I pushed it to around 20% of its capabilities, because we were on the street, and the owned had just bought it and was slightly nervous. I will say that at 2/10ths, the car felt glued to the road. 

It kinda is unique to the 718.  Sure, any mid engine car can swing its tail.  However the GT4 is more sudden and violent than the others.  As said, the limits are insanely high, however you don't want to probe beyond unless you are VERY skilled.  The 911 is a little more predictable and gives more warning.

It would be hard for me to pull the trigger on a Cayman GT4 when you can buy a 4.7L V8 Vantage for as little as half the price. Aston values drop like a stone, and Vantages are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

You get 420 hp from a dry-sump, quad-cam V8 that sounds glorious mated to a 6- or 7-speed transaxle. Manuals are a bit harder to find than the SMG gearboxes, but they’re out there.

The chassis stiff and well balanced. Double wishbones all around. Not quite a front-mid engine, but close. Strong brakes. It’s robust, reliable, and lots of fun to drive. Very benign on the limit. Stock suspension leaves some room for improvement, but there are several options for coilovers.

You can get a V12 Vantage for the price of a good Cayman GT4.

Vantage is a front engine, nearly 4000lb sports car 

GT4 is a mid engine, 3200lb go kart 

To me, they're apples and oranges 

The 4.7L Vantage street car is 3540 lbs (with the engine behind the front axle line and a transaxle) and the Vantage GT4 is just over 2900 lbs with full cage. Not a crazy comparison.

The vantages are really cool cars especially for how cheap the V8s are but they're not remotely in the same category as the GT4. I wouldn't say one is definitively superior to the other, just because of how different they are; they're not vehicles you'd cross shop unless your only requirement was "a cool sports car". And thanks for reminding us of another advantage of the 981 over the 718...their minimum curb weight is under 3000lb. I think some of the 718's higher listed weight is from changes in measuring requirements but I'd guess they're still at least 150lbs heavier than a comparably equipped 981.

I mean, they competed against each other in GT4 racing and the Vantages did pretty well. So, I guess I’d put them in remotely the same category.

The way I read it, you were looking for a street car you could enjoy on track. In that case the two platforms seem worth considering.

For dedicated race use, a Cayman GT4 RS Clubsport makes more sense than the AMR just for the strength of factory support and parts availability for Porsches compared to just about anything else over time. But both AMR and Prodrive have been pretty responsive when I’ve reached out to them.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/30Ab6PaL/2017-aston-martin-vantage-gt4

Yeah, while an Aston is a lovely car it's nowhere near the same kind of sports car that a GT4 is.  Just because they raced on the race track at the same time doesn't make them comparable street cars.  The Aston is a large, front-engine GT car, the GT4 is a mid-engined sports car.  If I were thinking about the Aston, I'd just keep my 996 Turbo.